Social Impact Authors: How & Why Author Julien and Kiersten Saunders of Cashing Out Is Helping To Change Our World
It’s fine to take pride in your work ethic, but your money can always work harder than you can. We’re big fans of investing in simple, low cost, broad based index funds. When we do this, we own a tiny slice of a wide variety of public traded companies which are all focused on maximizing their profitability. To us, it’s the simplest and most efficient way to build wealth.
As part of my series about “authors who are making an important social impact”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Julien and Kiersten Saunders, the authors of Cashing Out: Win The Wealth Game By Walking Away. They are personal finance experts and creators of rich & REGULAR, a lifestyle brand centered around inspiring better conversations about money. They’re also hosts/producers of the award winning video series, Money on the Table, podcasters and speakers.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dive into the main focus of our interview, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood backstory?
We had two completely different upbringings. Kiersten grew up in an upwardly mobile, middle-class household living in Texas, Florida and Georgia. Both of her parents worked professional jobs and by and large, they were considered the one’s who “made it” which heavily shaped the environment she was exposed to and how she thought about money. Julien on the other hand grew up in a single parent household and is the product of Jamaican parents who both immigrated to the US in the 70s. He grew up just above the poverty line in Brooklyn, New York City during hard times which also shaped his thinking about money in mostly limiting ways.
When you were younger, was there a book that you read that inspired you to take action or changed your life? Can you share a story about that?
I (Kiersten) have always loved books and one that I remember reading as a young woman that really affected me was I Will Teach You To Be Rich by Ramit Sethi. It taught me that becoming rich was a lot more within my control than what I thought. Prior to reading that book I was only focused on income but completely ignored the role managing my expenses properly played in my life. I (Julien) admittedly didn’t enjoy reading when I was younger but I do remember reading Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki and it sparking my interest in wanting to learn about wealth building. Given my upbringing, I felt like I was completely surrounded by Poor Dad personas so the book made me interested in exploring the world and opportunities outside of the environment I’d been exposed to.
Can you share the funniest or most interesting mistake that occurred to you in the course of your career? What lesson or take away did you learn from that?
We met at work and fell in love back in 2012. By 2015, we were married and by far the most interesting mistake we ever made together in our careers was delaying our honeymoon after our wedding. At the time, we were hardcore road warriors and very passionate about our jobs. We loved working so much that we took 6 business trips in between our wedding and honeymoon because we didn’t want to lose momentum on our projects. This obsession with work then spilled into our honeymoon because despite being halfway across the world, we couldn’t help but to check our email while we were away. The good news is, our inability to unplug from our careers is precisely what lead us to confronting the harmful path we were on, sparked our pursuit of financial independence and desire to help more people do the same. We learned the hard way that there’s more to life than working all the time.
Can you describe how you aim to make a significant social impact with your book?
In Cashing Out, we share how we built an exit ramp from our jobs that allows them to walk away comfortably without worrying about money. For some people, this means taking an early retirement and for others it means transitioning into an entrepreneurial or community focused phase of their life. Regardless, it directs more people away from a life spent in constant pursuit of another paycheck and towards a life where they control how to spend their time.
Can you share with us the most interesting story that you shared in your book?
The most interesting story we share in our book would have to be the story of our first conversation about money which actually lead to a breakup. Because of that conflict, we learned valuable lessons about how our childhood experiences shaped our beliefs about money and how it all unknowingly impacted our relationships. Looking back, that argument was one of the best things that could’ve ever happened to us, because it lead us to talk about money early in our relationship rather than avoiding it.
What was the “aha moment” or series of events that made you decide to bring your message to the greater world? Can you share a story about that?
There were several. But as professionals working in corporate environments, we learned after twenty years that favoritism, bias and racism unfortunately still exist at work which impacts hiring, pay equality and likelihood for promotion. Consequently, this has an impact on our abilities to save, invest, prepare for retirement and support our families. And while we’re optimistic change will occur over time, there’s no need for workers to base their retirement planning on the hopes of a meritocracy. Rather, we believe it’s far more beneficial for everyone to plan for and work towards exiting the workforce early so that if these problems do persist, you aren’t left in financial disarray because of it. Having money doesn’t solve all of your life’s problems but it certainly makes it easier to deal with them.
Without sharing specific names, can you tell us a story about a particular individual who was impacted or helped by your cause?
The first person that comes to mind is a young woman we met years ago at a networking event. She’s a mother of a child with special needs, a college student, worked at Starbucks part time and drove for Uber on her off days. After sharing our experience and perspective with her, she was able to reevaluate her career path entirely and became a business owner. In just two years, she’d overcame her self-limiting beliefs about saving, earning more and entrepreneurship and was able to relieve a lot of the pressure she felt to support herself and her daughter.
Are there three things the community/society/politicians can do to help you address the root of the problem you are trying to solve?
Absolutely. The growing wealth gap in the US isn’t just a problem people can solve on their own. It’ll require support and innovation from the public and private sector. In particular, we’d love to hear more elected officials supporting plans that narrow the gap to include addressing minimum wage, offering tax breaks to the people who need it the most, training for better-paying jobs and programs to make housing more affordable. In addition, we’d like to see even more aggressive measures taken to allow people to make “catch up” contributions to retirement plans. Today, most efforts to help people make tax deductible “catch up” contributions for retirement are based on age. We believe it should be based on need, particularly since so many Americans have drastically underfunded retirement accounts.
How do you define “Leadership”? Can you explain what you mean or give an example?
We define leadership as anyone who is willing to assume responsibility for solving a problem that impacts a group of people. In many ways, we see ourselves as leaders in that the content we produce and the aim of our book is focused primarily on improving the financial health of the Black community. We weren’t asked to do this and certainly didn’t have to do it, but after reading horrifying predictions for the financial future of Black Americans, we took it upon ourselves to help and reach as many people as we could.
What are your “5 things I wish someone told me when I first started” and why. Please share a story or example for each.
- It’s fine to take pride in your work ethic, but your money can always work harder than you can. We’re big fans of investing in simple, low cost, broad based index funds. When we do this, we own a tiny slice of a wide variety of public traded companies which are all focused on maximizing their profitability. To us, it’s the simplest and most efficient way to build wealth.
- Talk about money early and often, especially with your wife/husband/partner. Most couples we meet have already bought a home, gotten engaged or had a child before they have comprehensive and collaborative conversations about money. By then, if problems exist, they’ll be much more difficult to solve for because a baseline quality of life and habits are already established.
- You don’t have to work for 40–50 years. Most people are familiar with the rule of thumb that suggests you should save 10–15% of your income over the course of a 40 to 50 year career. However, it’s far more effective to save and invest 25% or more and work for a shorter period of time because you allow a larger sum of money to grow and compound which ultimately shortens the amount of time, you’ll have to work.
- Building wealth isn’t a selfish act. Far too many people are misinterpreting religious text and avoiding personal finance as a subject because they believe it’s a selfish act. On the contrary, we’ve found that the people with money are often the one’s who are able to live a better quality of life and help others along the way.
- You don’t have to choose between getting a job and becoming an entrepreneur. Growing your income is one of the most effective ways to eliminate debt and build wealth. And today, with the growth of the internet, having a side hustle that you grow into a full-fledged business is easier than it’s ever been. So instead of trying to choose between one or the other, we recommend people use the skills they’re developing on the job to build something outside of that job to earn supplemental income.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
Our best “life advice” is to “keep it simple”. Your investing strategy doesn’t have to be complicated. In fact, we’ve found that the simpler and more boring it is, the better it is. A simple financial plan is likely more affordable, is one you can understand and monitor more easily throughout your life. The media’s job is to distract you with new opportunities at every turn so these days, a commitment to simplicity can be difficult. But if you have a community of like minded people behind you that can keep you grounded, it’s much easier to ignore the hype, stay the course and reap the rewards in the long run.
Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would like to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them. 🙂
We have a video series called Money on the Table where we enjoy a meal and thoughtful conversation about money with a special guest. For us, a dream guest would be Dave Chappelle. His growth as a one of the world’s leading comedians has been amazing to watch. But we’re even more inspired by how he’s been able to navigate life as a creative entrepreneurs while maintaining his integrity.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
You can visit our blog at richandregular.com and follow us on social media on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook and Twitter.
This was very meaningful, thank you so much. We wish you only continued success on your great work!
Social Impact Authors: How & Why Author Julien and Kiersten Saunders of Cashing Out Is Helping To… was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.